Adding Saheeli, Sublime Artificer to "The Riddler"

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I believe "The Riddler" can benefit from adding one to two copies of Seheeli, Sublime Artificer for the following reasons:

After playing the deck, I found that the deck did not have a sufficient amount of creatures required to win the game in the vintage format when paired up with other agro decks. I looked at similar decks that do well with casting numerous spells in a turn and I found that Monastery Mentor worked well with Paradoxical Outcome decks as a win condition of overwhelming an opponent with Monk tokens. Though having Monastery Mentor in this deck would look good, I feel that the deck would not consistently produce enough white mana needed to cast Mentor even if additional white sources were added. Also splashing in white mana for just Mentor may not be a good idea. Adding Seheeli, Sublime Artificer to the deck would not take any alterations of mana sources. After testing this deck with Seheeli in it, I found that I had generated sufficient Servo tokens to win games against agro-heavy vintage decks.

Saheeli, Sublime Artificer's activated ability in combination with Time Vault is of great advantage. You can turn another artifact you control into an untapped copy of Time Vault and gain an extra turn with it. You can do this twice with a new Saheeli and you can even gain more than two additional turns by bouncing Saheeli with Paradoxical Outcome and replaying her. A couple of extra turns should be enough to win the game with this deck.

Saheeli, Sublime Artificer's activated and triggered ability in combination with Bolas's Citadel is an alternative win condition. Saheeli can generate a large amount of Servo tokens in this deck that can be sacrificed to Bolas's Citadel to make the opponent loose ten life. To make the opponent loose an additional ten life to win the game, use Saheeli's activated ability to copy Bolas's Citadel and use it's activated ability. There usually is enough leftover Servo tokens and other permanents available to sacrifice to the Citadel copy.

Saheeli, Sublime Artificer can be exiled to Force of will if you choose to do so.

Saheeli, Sublime Artificer can also be used to copy Hollow One on something like a Mox if needed or copy Blightsteel Colossus.

I believe that only one or two copies of Saheeli are needed since the deck has a massive amount of card draw.

Any feedback is welcome.

@aelien

I like Chain of Vapor definitely.

Another techy consideration is Wasteland. Since without Misstep, you can take them off of the mana they need to counter your spell.

I think 1-of Karn is just a better version of Tinker-Colossus. It’s a haymaker. It’s an alternate win in the face of adversity. It’s game 1 dredge hate. It’s a control card against artifact decks. I think the minimum sideboard configuration is:

1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Bolas’ Citadel
1 Mycosynth Lattice
2 Tormod’s Crypt

2 of those cards are part of the dredge hate package anyway, so it’s really only taking up 3 slots. And if you look at all the DPS lists that have done anything in the past 3 months, they have plenty of junk in the sideboard to give up.

With the release of Bolas's Citadel and the downfall of PO, I'm looking forward for TPS to be the go to Storm deck again.
The deck also dodges Narset to a certain degree with Necropotence and the Citadel itself.
I had pretty good results with it and was wondering if any of you were toying with this deck aswell and how you might have been doing.

@13nova said in Dark Petition Storm Sideboarding:

If you want to beat outcome, you can sideboard Sadistic Sacrament. This card will beat the pants off most outcome lists.

I always wonder why Cap effects aren't played more often, when there are so many decklists out there that have all of 1-3 win conditions.

@garbageaggro said in How to beat Xerox with UW Outcome:

Consider [[mystic remora]], that card does work in any blue matchup especially as the combo player. Turning all their counters into pseudo arcane denials has to put you ahead in the long run.

If you want to get your game 1 win % vs Misstep/Xerox with outcome just play 4 Grids. They are non-Missteppable Remoras. You'll lose some% vs. shops obviously.

Thepowernine's PO storm with no vault key is better versus the best deck online atm UR Xerox.

Tinker version is playable but better versus a different metagame.

For my experience Ub Omnitel work Better.

If this doesn't work, it is still very cool. If it does... very very very cool deck sir.

2 [EMA:232] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [ATQ:43] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [JUD:37] Cunning Wish
2 [MM3:50] Snapcaster Mage
1 [C13:259] Sol Ring
1 [FUT:173] Tolaria West
1 [VMA:303] Library of Alexandria
1 [MM2:56] Repeal
1 [NPH:35] Gitaxian Probe
3 [MM2:223] Mox Opal
1 [8ED:91] Merchant Scroll
3 [UST:213] Island
1 [VMA:287] Time Vault
1 [AER:169] Paradox Engine
1 [CHK:279] Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 [VMA:2] Time Walk
1 [VMA:4] Black Lotus
1 [VMA:5] Mox Emerald
2 [M11:219] Voltaic Key
1 [VMA:6] Mox Jet
1 [VMA:7] Mox Pearl
1 [EMA:40] Brainstorm
1 [EMA:225] Mana Crypt
1 [VMA:8] Mox Ruby
1 [CHK:273] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 [VMA:9] Mox Sapphire
1 [KTK:239] Polluted Delta
4 [SWS:34] Preordain
4 [C16:323] Seat of the Synod
1 [VMA:319] Tolarian Academy
4 [EMA:49] Force of Will
1 [VMA:1] Ancestral Recall
4 [MM2:64] Thoughtcast
3 [KLD:60] Paradoxical Outcome
1 [VMA:274] Mana Vault
1 [M10:68] Ponder
1 [ULG:126] Grim Monolith
1 [SOK:164] Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
SB: 1 [ZEN:57] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 [C15:108] Stroke of Genius
SB: 1 [C16:84] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [MM2:56] Repeal
SB: 2 [DKA:149] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 [CMD:46] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [KLD:60] Paradoxical Outcome
SB: 1 [EMA:240] Karakas
SB: 4 [10E:88] Hurkyl's Recall

There's a lot of fun interaction with the lands and Tolaria West is a pretty great non counterable way to get your academy or Boseiju,

(yes I know it's not the optimal tournament build, no tinker blightsteel/ no other colour) but it is a lot of fun and would be interested to see if any thing in it might ever do well at a tournament, mana base/ candleabra, paradox engine etc.

Who needs Tendrils when you have Stroke of Genius ! 🙂

Imperial Seal might be worth trying if you face a lot of aggro and need another tutor for tinker.

The real question is not how creature oriented control (aka hatebears, a name I do not like btw...) beat PO decks. Since the meta is now Bazaar, Workshop and Blue (PO or non PO does not matter, they all need to draw plenty of cards to win) it seems very hard to fight these decks with classical strategies. And with this I mean 4x Hatebear A, 4x Hatebear B, 3x Stony, 4x Removal C, ...

My judgement is that right card is Hurkyl's Recall and not Stony Silence. You just run your own power and acceleration and bust out the most powerful permanent based creature disruption and back it up with a healthy combination of Mental Misteps, Mindbreak Traps, REB, ... You also run tutors and deck manipulation (top, dack, dt, ...).

A Hurkyl's Recall plan will also work well with a singleton Chalice of the Void + Sphere effects against PO. Workshop tend to take a lot of damage if their explosive start was based on Mana Crypt and Ancient Tombs. Also note that after a mass bounce, your Mindbreak Trap is most likely going to be active, even against Workshop.

I was on a long break, just returned like a couple weeks ago, but the Oath of Ghouls 5C Humans deck from 2015-2016 was the first time I switched from a classical way of building aggro control based on mana denial (wastelands, stony) to a more soft lock approach without wastelands and stony (which is sometimes in the SB at best), but with my own broken stuff basically. Losing a Thalia is actually kinda the plan, because all you want is time to set up a more stronger position with Kambal and spells that disrupt the PO.

All this being said, with the recent emergence of Bazaar Survival, not even Hurkyl's Recall seems like a plan anymore. And do not forget Oath and Bazaar Dredge lurking around. So yea... hard times 🙂

@john-cox I ran both and Fragmentize and Disenchant, but Fragmentize gets countered way more because of Mental Misstep. Even if Disenchant gets countered you can play it on their turn and open up the board to more options on your turn. You can play both or either but I highly recommend at least 1 or 2 of them.

@mediumsteve Your points are very good. And, if I were just playing in a league on MTGO or playing at a small local event I would probably think about a 3 color version.

I have tested many iterations of the deck and I have to emphasize that if you are playing more than 6 rounds consistency is key. Some people will do extremely well with 3 colors but I have found that against Shops and Jeskai you need to be very consistent. I strongly believe that a 2 color build is good but the single color build is just more consistent.

@desolutionist Pack Rat was good before ballista was printed, now its just pretty bad in my opinion.

In general splashing 1 additional color for eather Mentor or Wheel and Empty is pretty easy and there is just a bit downside to it. However, my current build is pure UB and features tinker bot in the maindeck instead of Mentor or Empty. I dont really miss wheel a lot, i have to say, but wheel would definetly be the main reason to but a badlands in there again, not really Empty. However i dont object to empty as much as i did a few month ago, i can see it as a small number, what alienates (get it?) me is people playing 3 or even 4 copies.

Against Shops i rather board in a huge amount of bounce spells and aim to win with 1 of them resolving at the end of their turn, or try to win early with a tinker. ( i play 1x Hurkyl's maindeck, and 1 chain of vapor, and i bring in 3x hurkyl's, 1x Rebuild, 1x Echoing Truth and 1x Island. cutting mostly discard spells and defense grids)

Against most blue control decks i board in more defense grids and sometimes more discard (depending on the state of my sideboard at the time).
So generally i much rather board in cards that force through my 2 main win cons (tendils and bot) instead of boarding in additional win cons.

@pugsuperstar thanks man that was a good read

Below is what I've been playing since the latest B&R changes with modest some success (3-1 in a daily & 3-2 and 5-0 in the league). Basically cut a third preordain for a second bargain from my standard DPS list (definitely not certain that's correct, as I side out the second bargain a lot).

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Badlands
1 Black Lotus
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Petition
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Necropotence
4 Polluted Delta
1 Ponder
1 Sol Ring
1 Brainstorm
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Underground Sea
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Wheel of Fortune
2 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Swamp
2 Thoughtseize
1 Defense Grid
2 Preordain

2 Ancient Tomb
3 Ravenous Trap
1 Rebuild
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Defense Grid
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Island

I do think this has some advantages over PO Storm. It's faster than the slower PO builds, more stable than the faster PO builds (e.g. Reid Duke's with 4 Mox Opal and 2 Grim Monolith, which seems to have fallen out of favor), and less vulnerable to null rod effects (although they can still hurt depending on what we've drawn). Also, using duress effects for protection over FoW and other countermagic means our protection spells are less costly overall, and we make much better use of defense grid. Of course we lose the ability to be reactive, which makes us more vulnerable to shops.

However, I'll freely admit that the biggest reason I play this on MODO over PO storm is that I own the cards (virtual FoW and mox opal are pricey!), so my perspective is definitely biased. Regardless, I do hope the latest changes allow dark rituals to reclaim a place in the meta.

*edit#1 on 9/9/17: Just realized the aforementioned daily was before the latest b&r change. Sorry for the misrepresentation.

*edit#2 on 9/16/17: Updated to reflect fact that I just went 5-0 in my second MTGO Vintage league with this list. Played Ravager Shops, Delver, Dredge, Oath, and Uwx, if I remember correctly.

This thread reminds me of why we need to see Channel Unrestricted. This needless oppression has to stop.

I prefer the more resilient versions for several reasons. Though I haven't been able to join as many Dailies this month as I was in May, June, and July, I had a lot of success then with lists that walked the line between Paradoxical control and Cantrip Gush-Delve.

The main reasons I've preferred the Paradox lists with a Mentor win-con that are not "Opal Soup" are:

Lower frequency of hideous mulligans. Less games auto-lost due to inactive Mox Opal(s). Better equipped to win despite Stony Silence/Null Rod. Monastery Mentor is the best answer to Monastery Mentor Able to change roles, particularly post sideboard. For instance, when an opponent can be expected to overboard v. Paradox with Null Rods and artifact hate, I board out Mana Vault, sometimes EE, and 1 or 2 Outcomes, morphing into more of a straight up Mentor deck. Paradoxical Mirrors. The control/resilient versions have been substantially more favorable in matches v. the combo lists.