Megapitch Dredge: Weekend Report 6/7-/6/10
Pre-Amalgam days, I had lists that were more concise on number. I think you are right that this is probably the card causing dead weight.
List from 3 years ago that has 49, but was a fairly consistent turn 2, and has a decent main deck manabase: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=11771&d=267126&f=VI
Could be cleaned up a bit with a smaller return package that's not using 6 slots on dread return targets.
This slightly earlier incarnation had 41: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=11679&d=266568&f=VI
And could also easily be cleaned up below that without double bridge, and 5 slots on dread return targets.
Killing people with Hermit Druid post board were the days.
ajfirecracker last edited by
Let's say we want to make a dedicated Dread Return deck, which seems to be one of the routes you're considering.
X Dredgers (maybe 12, maybe more or less - hard to say when you have to run Dakmor Salvage)
4 Dread Return
4 Dread Return targets (maybe Chancellor?)
That puts us at 36ish prior to including additional free creatures or speed elements. It might be the way to go but I don't think it's more compact than the traditional configuration with Hogaak in the Dread Return slot. Even if the Hogaak list is 40 (4 Hogaak 4 Powder) this would only save 1 4-of slot and you wouldn't get to include any additional speed elements like free creatures or Fatestitcher, or additional consistency elements like further graveyard creatures.
Is that fair?
Those 36 + 12 Blue cards puts it at 48. The question would be what route to go at that point. Fatestitcher locks the deck into needing like 8 blue sources, and that means there isn't much room for anything else.
I think Fatestitcher is a reasonable speed element if you want to be on a fair bit of mana (in the 1, maybe 2 range, like the 2013-2016 dredge decks)
My feeling is that without Bridge from Below you need "bigger" Dread Return targets that can win the game on their lonesome, things more in the line of Iona, Elesh Norn, etc. Chancellor would be nice to give more disruption from the hand but I don't think you can just return a Chancellor and feel confident vs a lot of decks in the format.
Griselbrand, Muldrotha, and finishers is what I've been playing anyway.
Isn't Molderhulk better than Muldrotha for that same role?
Edit: Well, maybe we don't need to go too deep on that. I can think of some situations where Muldrotha would be better, but they would require additional slots for things like LED
Doesn't pitch to Force and can't get back Lotus/LED in this proposed list, but maybe in another variant.
ajfirecracker last edited by
My concern is that without Bridge it's harder to chain together multiple Dread Return, but I think it's more something to be ironed out with testing / tweaking than a real objection to the whole archetype.
So I think this whole no-Bridge DR thing is workable, but I don't see it saving slots for more disruption.
Is there another list I should be thinking about that saves more slots?
2 Serum Powder (post-London, could go up to 4)
Don't you just cut Therapy from this and play Bloodghast over Narcomoeba? This would require you to find ways to interact as the deck will be slightly slower, but you can easily generate lethal on turn 3 or 4.
I value Therapy much more highly than you do, Bloodghast much more lowly, and I think Therapy + Narco is a generally faster way of accomplishing the same thing as Bloodghast in that configuration.
The other issue is Dakmor Salvage, which is either taking up more slots or decreasing your average dredge (or both).
I think the Bloodghast/Ichorid/Hogaak/Bridge configuration would be a fine thing to test but I'm not particularly drawn to it.
Edit: Can we map out the other alternative? I think it was cutting Dread Return from a traditional package
Edit 2: Just to clarify, when I say I value Therapy more highly I'm saying I think it has a disruptive effect from the graveyard as well as being a sacrifice outlet from the graveyard. This makes me reluctant to cut it for a disruptive card from the hand which has no particular graveyard synergy.