This thread is awful, and makes me not want to be part of this community, which I thought had been the one part of the magic playing community that wasn't full of this kind of vitriol.

Abe is a good guy, and if you think he isn't being attacked in this thread, I think you haven't been reading all the posts. He has repeatedly asked for whatever additional rules violations the community has supposedly rooted out. He has also (much more calmly than I would have) responded to most of them, and shown them to be fallacious.

I don't think this "public outcry" is accomplishing anything, but getting a lot of people less excited about hanging out with the vintage community, and that really sucks.

Deckstats has a bunch of different formats you can use to nicely display decklists, I don't think any of them work on the boards. It can help especially if they have built in links to cards etc.

The other thing I think would be a nice feature is the ability to auto-highlight/link magic cards by name and some way to type mana symbols, numbers. I just think it looks nice on reddit/slack emoji replacement.

What a great event. Thanks to @hazard for hosting.

You can watch video coverage here (warning explicit language):

• Round 1
• Round 2
• Round 3
• Round 4
• Round 5
• Quarter Finals
• Semifinals
• Finals

EDIT:

Tournament Achieved, we ended up with 24 people to celebrate Matt Hazard's birthday with a great tournament.

The final standings after the cut to top 8 were:

1: Duane - Mod Squad Shops
2: Nam - Mis-copied from Detweiler Shops
3: Kevin Cron - Paradoxical outcome
4: Frank - Dredge
5: Hazard - Paradoxical Outcome
6: Steve S - White Eldrazi
7: Ben Perry - Two Card Monte
8: Kevin Nelson - Dredge
9: Sam Krohlow - Bomberman
10: Kurt Crane- Bomberman Oath
11: Jimmy McCarthy- Bomberman
12: Erik Butler - Vintage Miracles
13: Kyle Lenox - Dredge
14: Nat - Tidespout Tyrant Oath
15: Rick Gideon - Gideon-style Shops
16: Justin Waller - Prison Shops
17: Mark Trogdon - Shops
18: CJ - Painter + Red Cards?
19: Charles Rolko - Paradoxical Outcome
20: Twaun - Tezzerator
21: Randal - UR Delver w/Price of Progress
22: Alex - White Eldrazi
23: Jake Hilty - Grixis Painter
24: Steve McGrew - UW Mentor

Top 8 PLayed out like this:
Duane Beat Kevin
Ben Perry beat Nam
Kevin Cron beat Steve
Frank beat Hazard

Kevin Beat Ben Perry
Frank Beat Duane

Frank won the whole thing vs Kevin

Top 8 Deck Lists (in no particular order):
Frank Singel - Dredge
Lands 18
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Mana Confluence
2 City of Brass
3 Petrified Field
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 Riftstone Portal

Creature 24
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
3 Prized Amalgam
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ashen Rider

Spells 18
4 Unmask
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge From Below
4 Serum Powder
2 Dread Return

SB
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Nature's Claim
3 Barbarian Ring

Kevin Cron - Paradoxical Tezz
Tezzeret, the Seeker 1
Time Vault 1
Voltaic Key 1
Defense Grid 1
Memory Jar 1
Sensei's Diving Top 2
Mind's Desire 1
Paradoxical Outcome 4
Tinker 1
Gitaxian Probe 4
Preodrain 3
Demonic Tutor 1
Ponder 1
Time Walk 1
Vampiric Tutor 1
Ancestral Recall 1
Brainstorm 1
Yawgmoth's Will 1
Timetwister 1
Hurkyl's Recall 2
Chain of Vapor 1
Tendrils of Agony 1
Force of Will 4
Lion's Eye Diamond 1
Mana Vault 1
Black Lotus 1
Lotus Petal 1
Sol Ring 1
Mox Pearl 1
Mox Ruby 1
Mox Sapphire 1
Mox Jet 1
Mox Emerald 1
Mox Opal 4
Mana Crypt 1
Misty Rainforest 4
Tropical Island 1
Tolarian Academy 1
Underground Sea 2
Island 1

SB: 15
Island 2
Forest 2
Library of Alexandria 1
Nature's Claim 3
Defense Grid 2
Hurkyl's Recall 2
Mindbreak Trap 2
Blightsteel Colossus 1

Duane Haddix - Mod Squad
3 Arcbound Ravager
3 Hangarback Walker
1 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
3 Animation Module
1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphère
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland

3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Dismember
3 Foundry Inspector
4 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Null Rod
1 Spatial Contortion

Nam Tran -Nick Detwiler Shops
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Lodestone Golem
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
3 Foundry Inspector (Was supposed to be Chief of the Foundry. Oops!)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy

4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Duplicant
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Gaea's Blessing

Ben Perry - 2 card monte
Main:

Sideboard:

Steve S - White Eldrazi
5 Plains
4 Cavern of souls
4 wasteland
1 Strip mine
2 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Null Rod
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Containment Priest
2 Thought Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

3 Mental Misstep
2 Kataki, Wars Wage
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Seal of Cleansing

Hazard - Paradoxical Outcome

**Kevin Nelson - Dredge **
Main:
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
2 Dakmor Salvage
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Bloodghast
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
2 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Force of Will
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
3 Mental Misstep
4 Narcomoeba
3 Prized Amalgam
4 Serum Powder
4 Stinkweed Imp

Sideboard:

1 Balance
1 Dread Return
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Ingot Chewer
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Nature's Claim
2 Serenity

Some pics from the event
The entry fee was something for the prize pool, and the donations were phenomenal, I have 2 different pictures with the prizes set up on different tables (yes that sawzall was part of the prizes).

Yes inside that box is a bottle of honey mustard and a scrubland.

Table 1:

Table 2 (some of that is not Vintage):

Table 3:

Table 4 (including our new friend Alex playing magic for the first time in 20 years!):

Feature Match Table upstairs (that is the finals!)

Nam and Ben Perry top 8 competitors:

Casual Drink using Vintage deck as coaster:

Classic Jimmy McCarthy vs Twaun Q Pwnerton matchup:

Jake & Steve invent a new game Better Poker hand or 2 cards from cube:

Team Serious Elite Twaun, Nam, and Justin:

All the leftover Beer:

@thewhitedragon69 Man, we just wanted something fun to do. Also, sorry we might have accidentally made your collection worth more, I guess?

Sometimes I really hate the internet.

I don't know if this is possible, but it would be nice if there was some way to link to all the people currently streaming vintage? Maybe somewhere in the Vintage around the web section?

I don't know what kind of implementation challenges there are for this, since I don't know a lot about twitch and if it has any publicly facing APIs but it would be a really nice feature.

This format as it is now seems great. I feel like you can win with anything? I have never been a shops pilot, and I never feel like I am the underdog in those matchups except when I got Vintage'd, which happens from literally every deck in the format.

I would prefer no restrictions, if you feel like something has to be restricted from shops, it needs to be accompanied by an unrestriction of chalice, as that card is useful to many other archetypes, and doesn't have a lot to do with what current shops decks are doing. I think chalice is a totally reasonable card, and totally don't understand why it was restrcted in the first place. As for unrestrictions, Bargain and Ponder are tied for cards I think are the safest probably. It is possible that Bargain makes some sort of show & tell deck too good with 8 targets, but at the moment Oath seems like a 2 mana version of Bargain a lot of the time.

I think it is funny that most of the decks playing karn and forge weren't playing sphere. Also, the second to last paragraph, they were talking about bring back necro 4x! I am excited.

Who wants to help me brew fastbond high tide?

The "problem" with abusing this with voltaic key, is if you have voltaic key and mana don't you just get time vault? You don't need to tutor twice.

@hrishi said in EW Meta and discussion.:

g at WOTC and going "FIX THIS!!!" and that probably drives more people away from wanting to participate than any lopsided metagame ever will.
With how quickly people call for restrictions and changes, the format changes way too quickly for any kind of natural change to take place. Granted, there is zero incentive for natural change because people are simply waiting for the next B&R announcement and netdecking to their heart's content until that point. I don't mean to say anything negative towards people netdecking, but when you copy existing decks, you're going to perpetuate their weaknesses and continue the same metagame going forward, MODO simply increases this effect.

Oh man, I thought I was the only person, that saw the results of EW and got excited about having a meta to build decks against! This is always my favorite part of the year, because it lets me really think about the larger universe of vintage and what is going on. I have been intrigued by people still trying to beat shops with snapcaster + spot removal despite the smaller number of draw spells post gush, and the transition of shops to being more aggressive, playing fewer spheres, and having cards that are better against spot removal.

This made me feel like it was more possible to play some of the bigger and more impactful anti shops cards (and in higher numbers) and still have a positive matchup against blue decks. I want to see more Melt down, energy flux, hurkyl's, by forces, etc paired with some spot removal to set up really devastating positions.

Or just post the recipe period? I feel like fully half of vintage is the food you eat after/during and before tournaments.

I don't think you can put these names on future printings probably, since they are trademarked. Which makes it harder.

Solid point, I think there are times were the difference between a planeswalker and a creature are relevant, but I think the dack comparison is most apt. I can imagine it being relevant in something like RUG or BRUG planeswalkers depending on your meta, but Dack seems like it will generally be better.

+1 to using a rental service. I think 500 tix rental capacity on cardhoarder is like $15/week, which is sort of expensive but takes about half a year to catch up in price, and also let's you change up decks as much as you want. I have gone back and forth in terms of MTGO. I think ultimately i like the interface better than arena, even though it is a little clunky. It feels like it has all the nuances of "real" magic to me. You will lose games to the interface for the first couple weeks though. It sucks but it is real.

Oko can make 3/3s under humility for the same reason mishra's factory activated with humilty out is a 2/2. Both abilities are setting power and toughness, so what matters is time stamps. If humility is out and I +1 oko, the result is a 3/3 because the timestamp of that ability is later.

Oko is already winning most creature fights at a lower mana cost. Maybe Humility adds some percentage to that, but it is also a 4 mana card that isn't super impactful against several archetypes. I just don't see it being worth the deck slot.

Humility is also bad against oko, just generally which is a real concern in vintage I would think.

@desolutionist and I just played a set of matches that were lots of fun the 4x Tinker, PO, Vault, Key deck beat xerox but definitely got a bit lucky. And then gush tendrils lost to xerox. Fun was had, this reminds me of vintage in 2014/15. I haven't tried to play against shops yet though. Overall the format is explosive but not like actually that much more insane than some of the versions of the format I actually played in.

[[dinosaur cat]]? No respect.

@BlindTherapy That is not accurate jegantha and chalice are not friends confirmed by Eli Shiffrin on twitter.

Not to turn this into a B&R thread cause i believe there is a dedicated thread for that, but why "Yay"? I thought people were pretty happy with the current format.

So generally from nothing the line is: intuition -> 3x breach, then cast breach cast intuition for lotus/led, brainfreeze, x. I think you need 4 cards at the start to win? The mana cost is 2U + 2U + 1R.