I was once young but now I am old. I have brought a new life into this world and learned some humility. And as I see the ages of the new up and coming vintage players on mtgo, I have developed a newfound respect for young players. Young players are always going to be better than us old heads because they’re more motivated with something to prove and they’ve got all the time in the world. I was best at magic when I was about 16 years old. The nostalgia I have for premodern and old school formats is really just the desire to be young again... to be back in the drivers seat of developing the latest tech or archetypes.

My hats off to you young players. You’ve got this. Always have. Always will.

I miss paper events

You could just post that question here too. I am interested in that discussion. I use discord for old school, but Vintage is lucky enough to have its own dedicated website so might as well use it.

edit

Did I mention how lucky we are to have themanadrain? It takes a lot of resources to have something like this up and running. Thanks to Andy for catering to the nostalgia of a message board — and it’s only going to be as lively as the users that post here.

They should errata the card for Vintage so you can use it instead of Black Lotus

@botvinik

We see this with formats such as premodern, and the player made ban lists are terrible.

The fact that it sacrifices itself could work well with Crucible.

The other side of this that hasn’t been discussed is “enchantment”. Enchantments are not a major theme in Vintage but hypothetically this land can be targeted by Force of Vigor.

MTGO is not fun. Never ask what would make me sit in front of that awful program for 8+ hours. No thank you.

1. Graphics - very laggy, cannot quickly navigate without risk of crashing the program

2. Sound quality - absolutely terrible

3. Entry cost - $500+ for a digital deck within an outdated program

4. Lack of players - nearly impossible to get a casual game in the tournament practice room and often wait 10+ minutes for a league game

5. Commitment - one game at a time on demand is fine on Arena. But even a best 2/3 match is unacceptable when you’ve got diapers to change

In person events are more desirable because I get to remove myself from an environment id otherwise be entrenched with responsibilities. Try telling your mother in law you can’t tend to your crying child because your opponent is trying to time you out with the chess clock. #pointless

@botvinik

Back to watching bitcoin and mtg prices

Thanks for the responses! I can see why this planeswalker may not make the cut except for as a fringe card drawing spell. I admit that when I saw it, I was thinking about all the other great 3 mana Planeswalkers, not realizing that this Jace might as well just be a Jace Beleren.

I feel like this could still be an option along side Jace Beleren for hitting islands in a Stasis deck, but that’s pretty far from the mainstream competitive metagame.

There’s actually a black land with this effect already. https://scryfall.com/card/eld/241/castle-locthwain

@moorebrother1 said in Data, expertise and analysis:

@mike-noble No question, just a middle-aged guy trying to work some stuff out. I am no expert, especially not in Vintage and especially not now.

I do not care if people have cards, proxies are fine with me. I am looking for something that probably no longer exists here and I'll stop wasting everyone's time.

Thanks for the responses.

Hey I just wanted to say that I really appreciate that you took the time to write out this thread and I enjoy following and thinking about topics like this. Please don’t be discouraged

@revengeanceful

Question: Is Dack Fayden dead now? He has dropped off from Xerox list. Is he even playable anymore?

If you’ve traded 1 mana for 3 mana, you’ve gained a mana advantage. Yes, Plow can exile a turn 1 Colossus and Fragmentize and destroy a Mox. But Detention Vortex can do either AND more.

Hypothetically, if I only had 1 mana to spare and needed the other land drop for Bazaar activations or to make another “lock piece” drop, Detention Vortex could be very serviceable. They would have to think pretty hard about setting themselves back 3 mana. It only works though if vortex would be followed up by another lock piece, like an accumulation of Spiketail Hatchling effects, or some major threat.

Here’s a hypothetical list where this card might have unrivaled uses:

4 Detention Vortex
4 Land Tax
4 (1 mana rule of law)
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Suppression Field
4 Phrygian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Leonin Relic Warder
2 Scroll Rack
1 Aura of Silence
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Armageddon

4 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus

4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
10 Plains
1 Bazaar of Baghdad

Now, I don’t recommend just turboing this out on turn 1, but in a strategic and calculated way to form the most effective soft lock on your opponent.

@thewhitedragon69 said in [STX] Detention Vortex:

I think the upside to revoker is that it's a body to swing with too. It capitalizes on the tempo and isn't just a 3-mana stall. Null rod seems to handle the moxen/balista issues in one, semi-permanent, sweep, and only costs 1 more mana. There are no planeswalker abilities you need to really worry about when you are on 1 mana. A revoker or more permanent answer for 2 or 3 mana is likely better vs PWs. This has some versatility, but I don't know if a speed bump that isn't ALSO a threat (thalia, revoker, spellbinder, archon, etc) is really worth the slot in a fish/tempo deck.

All the cards you’re talking about cost 2 mana. I think 1 mana vs 2 mana is very significant. I can list about 5 cards that are better than Revoker at a higher mana cost...

Just like 6 mana cards are better than 4 mana cards. What are we doing here?

Is Nature’s Claim better than Disenchant? Absolutely not. And heck Dismantling Blow is light years better than Disenchant, right?

I’m not making the argument that this should replace Revoker or even see extensive play. Just pointing out this card exists and has uses at a very competitive casting cost. There aren’t many cards like it. Hypothetically if you could only produce 1 mana, what card would you play instead of this to achieve the same effect?

Detention Vortex {W}
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant nonland permanent
Enchanted permanent can’t attack or block, and its activated abilities can’t be activated.
{3}: Destroy Detention Vortex. Only your opponents may activate this ability and only as a sorcery.

For an uncommon, this card goes pretty late in STX draft. However I’ve found it to be pretty good in w/x weenie strategies where tempo is significant.

I think the card is worthy of consideration in vintage tempo/white weenie strategies because of its mana cost and versatility. It’s essentially a Phyrexian Revoker in the way it can turn off a Mox or a Planeswalker. I think it could pretty decent against a Workshop deck, shutting down a Walking Ballista, because the 3 colorless mana at sorcery speed is such a steep cost —or if you’ve focused a mana rock, it could be difficult to pay for it. Even if they manage to pay the 3 mana, that in itself could be a significant tempo loss to them. In combination with other mana denial strategies, it could work pretty well at further denying mana or by simply dealing with a fatty.

Mana comes at a premium for weenie strategies, so 1 mana to deal with anything (when it isn’t just shutting down mana rocks) seems worthy of a sideboard slot at the least.

I’m also envisioning playing Control/combo against Aggro control, and if they (aggro/control) play this on a Mox, I’m going to be pressed to decide whether or not to pay 3 and it could set me back too far. I suppose it’s probably just worse than Fragmentize in these specific scenario, but maybe the flexibility it has with Planeswalkers and creatures gives it a look.

@botvinik

Upon resolution of its trigger

The fact that it sacrifices itself could work well with Crucible.

The other side of this that hasn’t been discussed is “enchantment”. Enchantments are not a major theme in Vintage but hypothetically this land can be targeted by Force of Vigor.

You could play these in Landstill and fetch Black Vise

Yeah you’ve got to just do the work. It may not be worth it though? I wouldn’t have high expectations to say the least.

@mike-noble

This is a nice post. I like it. That said, have you ever read Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns? Do you know when Tom Brady will retire? There’s something sexy about the old man using his last breath to get it done. And yes while younger players have more time and drive to succeed, the older generations shouldn’t be completely disregarded. #DownButNotOut